Welcome to /his/ - History & Humanities! This board is dedicated for discussing and debating history. Rules: 1. All images and discussion should pertain to the humanities: history, philosophy, religion, law, classical artwork, archeology, anthropology, ancient languages, etc. 2. Discussions about books, poetry, and other forms of literature should be posted on /lit/. 3. Discussions about politics and current events should be posted on /pol/. Global Rule #3 is in effect: blatantly racist posts may result in a ban. 4. Please do not start threads about events taking place less than 25 years ago. 5. Remember all global rules apply to /his/, and general respect and courtesy is in this board no matter your opinions or the opinions of others.
Imagine killing thousands of poor-ass Eastern Euro Jewish cobblers, tailors, watchmakers and bazaar dwellers and giving the American Corporate Ashkenazi Jews, who have, notably, repeatedly refused to help Euro Jews, a reason to victimize themselves and create a steel wall of ideology that makes them nigh impossible to criticize in the US despite their drastic overrepresentation in banking, law, academia and stock market. >inb4 dindu happen That just means deep down below you know it was wrong and you're trying to cope, lmao. A few million Jews didn't just disappear into nowhere. They used to be everywhere in pre-WW2 Poland and barely any remained. pic related
>Islam forbids Alcohol consumption >Alcohol causes women to fuck random person she finds >Turning them into whores >Alcohol causes men to goes berserk >Also known to cause father to go perv on his son/daughter >Causing them to have sexual trauma >Adults that's junkie usually have some sort of sexual abuse Islam was right about Alcohol, checkmate faggios. Also mods when the fuck a board for religion going to be made? /his/ is too much of a Christians circlejerk to properly discuss religion.
We tricked a bunch of antisemites into believing the Holocaust wasn't real.
Isn't the entire old testament written by and for Jews? Wasn't Jesus himself Jewish? >inb4 den of thieves, synagogue of Satan When a gentile asked Jesus for help he said: "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs." >"Yes it is, Lord," she said. "Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table." Why are we supposed to be dogs eating crumbs from our Jew master's table? Honest question.
can i be both a nazi and a christian?
Happy Easter to everyone and a reminder that /his/ is a Christian board.
MASSIVE HAPPENING GET IN HERE Jesus Christ was crucified two days ago, today he was seen rising from his tomb in Jerusalem JESUS HAS RISEN >inb4 sauce Christbros.. i think we won
Daily reminder that /his/ is a Christian board
If the church and state was not seperated the world would be a better place and you literally cannot argue this. Degeracy has run rampant and just proves the point, society can't function without it.
Christian man ejects cops from church who are there to enforce covid lockdown tyranny. One man with sheer force of personality and faith just sent 8 cops slinking away in shame! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btaLXbjttjE >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btaLXbjttjE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btaLXbjttjE
Adolf Hitler is the greatest man to be born after jesus christ and there is literally nothing anyone can say to change that
Atheists literally have no moral argument against people getting penetrated by animals in their ass or mouth or cunt. Only the Bible prohibits bestiality. Can atheists convince a woman to not get fucked by her dog or fucked by a horse?
Did the Abos really deserve to be genocided?
How do you get around the glorious free, white, pagan?
and that's the tea ya'll
Dear Christians, Do you agree with the following statement? 'Jesus Christ was the Son of God who came to Earth to die for our sins' if yes: How do you wrestle with the common accusation seen here that Jews killed Jesus? Isn't it clear that Jesus' death was part of God's plan, and thus Jews were acting as He required in order to fulfil His plan? Shouldn't you be thankful that Jews acted in a way required to carry out His will? Is it not the case that when you castigate Jews for this event, you are in fact castigating those that helped bring about the salvation?
>Christianity is the history of Europe >The decline of the West is synonymous with the attacks on Christianity over the years Why havnt you accepted Jesus Christ into your heart anon??
Christianity is a bad evolutionary strategy. Why 1. Promotes an outgroup preference by putting jews as the chosen ones. 2. It promotes extreme individualism by keeping to a rugged sermon style of participation. 3. It promotes isolationist behavior by fostering a deep relationship with 1 on 1 time with god, instead of group worship. 4. It promotes negative associations with fellowshipping by celebrating holidays with condemnations of personal accountability. 5. It promotes a disassociation with spirituality and physical reality by having teachings that go against scientific truths. 6. Promotes collectivism only to police and judge one another further driving each other into isolationism. Christianity is a bad evolutionary strategy. If you promote it as a way to save the White race you are actively stopping 1488.
Why do modern Christians and Jews hate Gnosticism so much? They more I study it the more truth I find in it (which is very fitting).
>being protected from a deadly disease is literal heckin holocaust noooooo stop the vaccinerinoo
seriously lol when will you guys stop with this shit Anyone with a functioning brain knows that your arguments about Da jooz controlling the government are built upon false pretenses and assertions. If someone has one drop of Jewish blood or has a great grandparent who once parked their car in a Synagogue parking lot, suddenly their part of a grand conspiracy to subjugate and enslave the huwhite race. Watch one of you fuckers get destroyed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojCXIfVfN3Y
(((Atheist))) people are the ones who got A's in school because they obeyed the teachers and were "book smart" while the real smart people trust there instincts and KNOW in theirt heart that god is real and study the bible on their own being auto didacts for the most part. Atheists are also the ones who push for mask's and vaccines the most. They truley are the servants of (((satan))). "Maaah maah, jesus isnt real maaah" So in short: Atheist = 100 IQ midwit Religious = either 70 IQ or 130 IQ (like newton, he was a staunch christian)
They literally want to put you and your family in camps where they will torture, humiliate and eventually murder you. Please familiarize yourself with the signs and begin preparing before it is too late https://metallicman.com/laoban4site/what-the-progressive-liberals-have-in-store-for-conservatives/ This is not a joke or an exaggeration.
>The number of atheists in Russia has doubled from 7% to 14% in just four years, with less than half of those under the age of 25 declaring themselves to be Orthodox Christian, compared to 66% for the population as a whole. >That’s according to a new poll from WCIOM, which revealed that faith in a Christian God is dropping with each generation. >On the contrary, Islam has held steady, remaining at around 6% of the entire population. Unlike Christianity, the popularity of the Refugee faith is far more prevalent in the young than the old, with under 25s having double (12%) the proportion of believers compared the country as a whole.
Why is christianity collapsing in the west like a chinese high rise? How do we accelerate it and encourage indigenous spirituality over foreign ones?
Even Tucker Carlson recognizes the Military has now gone 'Woke' and become a puppet of Globohomo. Not just for ZOG anymore, but a far more sinister purpose. The purging of right-wingers and whites is to facilitate the use of troops against the American people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCSzqJcm9w The reason the military is going 'Woke' is because the ruling left wants a shock force willing to kill white Americans. They want their "diversity" (RE: anti-white) military to enforce gun confiscation, subjugate unruly pockets of resistance, and enforce martial law as the left sees fit. This isn't some "Jade Helm" or "Secret Illuminati Black Helicopters" tinfoil hat conspiracy. It is the logical progression of every leftist takeover in human history. Mao, his Pot, Stalin, Ho Chi Minh. They all got themselves an Army - and then they used it. They want the capability of military force for a reason; and that reason is to subjugate and persecute their most hated ene...
>mention there were fairly developed african states before colonization >OH SO AFRICANS WOULD BE TRAVELLING TO STARS IF IT WASNT FOR DA EVIL WHITE MAN SUREEE >mention the differences between races are miniscule at best >SO YOU ARE SAYING BLACKS ARE SUPERIOR WHY DO YOU SUPPORT WHITE GENOCIDE??? >mention modern nations are product of centralized education and artificial >SO YOU WANT TO DESTROY NATIONS AND HAVE SOME COMMUNIST UTOPIA BECAUSE LEMME GUESS IT WASNT REAL COMMUNISM >mention any criticism of the altright approach >ITS LEFTYPOL INVASION THE JOOS ARE TRYING TO BRAINWASH US WITH THEIR TRICKS WE ARE GETTING GENOCIDED HELP It's just so tiring. All i want is to have a reasonable discussion but you guys are so hanged up on your scarecrows and buzzwords it's genuinely impossible...
Describe the downfall of Western Civilization in one picture
They cannot eat our food, cannot dress like us, constantly fight with anti-Islamism and everyone says “Merry Christmas”. It’s like an American living in a country without burgers.
Is eastern Vedic Hinduism superior to western Judaic Christianity?
Wh*tebois cry about BMWF and say it'a the the cause of "White genocide". Yet WMAF is the biggest interracial couple marriage in human existence Wh*te men are literally genociding themselves. I didn't even mention the number of white mean who are coming out out as junkie or trans. Lmao wh*tw people are genociding themselves yet they blame the J*ws.
What Christian church is based? Catholicism? Orthodox? Protestantism? Doesn’t matter?
WTF I LOVE CATHOLICISM NOW
How can """based""" people worship a god who commanded people to mutilate their sons' penises against their will? inb4 DUUUURRRRR BUT HE CHANGED HIS MIND LATER, doesn't matter, he is responsible for millions if not billions of child mutilations. Jehova is a sick demented freak.
A peer reviewed study claims Africans have a large segment of non-human DNA. Does this mean African people are littoral sub humans? Was Hitler right about them? Since Caucasians and Asians have up to 4% Neanderthal DNA are we human? I feel this kind of science should be banned to promote social harmony. How can we help blacks be equal to us? Avarage Asian IQ 1 Hong Kong (108) 2 Singapore (108) 3 South Korea (106) 4 China (105) 5 Japan (105) 6 Taiwan (104) VS. Average Sub-Saharan IQ 167 Somalia 68 168 Chad 68 169 Burkina Faso 68 170 Angola 68 171 Saint Kitts And Nevis 172 Dominica 173 Sao Tome And Principe 67 174 Guinea Bissau 67 175 Lesotho 67 176 Liberia 67 177 Haiti 67 178 Guinea 67 179 Gambia 66 180 Gabon 64 181 Cameroon 64 182 Mozambique 64 183 Saint Lucia 62 184 Equatorial Guinea 59 A person is considered intellectually disabled if they have an IQ of less than 70. How do we help blacks? Should we give them reparations? I think we should keep Asian, White, and even Latino kids out of school until...
Why does god let demons exist? He’s all powerful and all good so why doesn’t he just Shoah them?
Christianity is the inversion of original Aryan ancient religions. Everything in Judaism and Christianity had been stolen from Sumerian and Vedic religion including Yahweh (Vedic Yahvah), Satan (Sumerian Enki, Vedic Agni) The early tales of Genesis are stolen and corrupted from the Sumerian's. Enki (Satan) created Adamu with the red clay of the Apsu and breathes the breath of life into him. Later the Jews stated Yahweh creates Adam with the red dust of the earth and breathes the breath of life into him. What about the "fallen angels"? >"The Jewish authors often inverted the Mesopotamian intellectual traditions with the intention of showing the superiority of their own cultural foundations. >[thus]... the antediluvian sages, the Mesopotamian Apkallus, were demonised as the "sons of God" and appear as the fallen angels ... illegitimate teachers of humankind before the flood." Abraham = Brahman >https://www.boloji.com/articles/15119/abraham-and-brahma-part-i Adam = Adamu >https://...
This ancient esoteric system (kabbalah is the known jewish iteration but its older - ie. the religion of the Egyptians, Babylonians, Sumerians and purportedly pre-deluvians) is the religion of the people running the show They are not true jews as they do not follow torah. They are not catholics or any other group. Rather kabbalah is the esoteric sect at the core of all these religions. There is christian kabbalah known as gnosticism. There is hermetcism, rosicrucianism. There are proto European pagan forms such as aryanism which borrow from theosophy. To cut a long story short let us look at what Kabbalah is responsible for >Most wars on the earth (dialectical social engineering) >Manufactured famines and disasters (population and demographic control) >Manufactured economic collapses (resource harvesting, population control, dialectical social engineering) >Mass trauma based mind control (ties into above) >Generational ritual abuse among core bloodlines (fragmenting childs minds through torture to facili...
cmon his this is a big day lets celebrate
There as a post weeks ago that said Soviet flag didnt have a star in it and we all agreed while some people said they remembered the star. NOW I GOOGLED SOVIET FLAG AND WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK IS THIS SHIT
If you dislike APPLE INC., how can you possibly not want Islam in your country, with us you will not have to worry, it’s like a double negative, you hate Apple Inc. but you also hate those who actually put in the work to reverse junkie rights. we will have your women fully clothed and obedient. We will also cleanse of APPLE INC.. That’s all, think a little.
Just got into an argument with my girlfriend about white genocide but she doesn't believe me. She knows white people are being outbirthed by other ethnic groups and she thinks it's okay because it's natural. Can you anons give me some stats and facts regarding white birth rates?
Homo jannies already deleted my last post and warned me, so here's another. That half time show was blatant satanism with the ghostly choir, the descending figure, the messianic entrance, the masked figures, the writhing dance, and hellish lighting. And it all was immediately followed with the commercial for silence of the lambs with the woman running away from something while carrying a lamb and saying "I couldn't save the lamb". Of course lambs have a lot of significance in Christianity, with Christ being the Lamb of God.
>Doesn’t tell what religion is right >Doesn’t tell us if he’s real >Puts his word in a book that’s been proven to have plot holes or inconsistencies >Claims to have a plan yet nothing has happened for 2000 years >Let’s even the good suffer >We must worship him and follow his rules in a world that’s unforgiving >Will send us to hell but then claims to love us >Uses fear and cutting of skin yet says we get can’t get a tattoo which is hypocritical because my dick is cut off so I can’t put ink in my arm? >Sets up humans to fail like with diseases, mental health problems, disabilities a world that hates us, etc >Blames us always because he put an apple in a garden setting us up to fail >Forcing sin on man even I never chose it at my birth , I was never give the second option >Sacrifices a lot of things like animals and slavery and Egypt then later sacrifices his son for sins he created >Would rather gamble with the Devil than give Job the life he deserved he got a...
We don't actually deny the holocaust. Right? We're just trolling. Right?
Wtf Bros you told me the Holocaust didn't happen?
Amateur historian, what was the true cause of the fall of the Roman empire? The Ottomans never truly achieved what the Romans had in expansion, nor achieved the regional legacy of the Romans, but existed into the modern world. Chinese empires were continually in turmoil and never expanded from their seat in the East. From what I understand, they were continually abused by outside powers.
In recent months just about every day people make threads about rejecting Christianity and taking up paganism. People from all over make these type of posts but I notice far more Canadians creating pagan threads. The OP is always something like >Current year >Still being a Christcuck or >The christfags are destroying western civilization. what do? or >Stop going to church 9/10 the post is accompanied by a photo of Varg Vikernes If they're serious, what's their reasoning? I remember traditional Catholicism and Orthodoxy were very popular this time last year on /his/ Also, has Canada converted to paganism while I wasn't looking?
christians are filthy and disgusting
The Greatest Man in history is Jesus Christ. He had no servants, yet they called Him Master. He had no degree, yet they called Him Teacher. He had no medicines, yet they called Him Healer. He had no army, yet kings feared Him. He won no military battles, yet He conquered the world. He committed no crime, yet they crucified Him. He was buried in a tomb, yet He lives today, He had no wife, yet He's the Bridegroom, I love you Jesus with all my heart, strength and soul.
"I finally understand Islam now. I finally understand Islam's obsession with tradition and its severe punishments for progress. The traditional lifestyle of refugees is more primitive than our lifestyle, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The development of the human is way behind the development of our environments. We still have our primitive instincts that the modern world fails to satisfy. It seems, at this point, that our progress is heading to a dystopia. It's amazing how the transhumanism of Elon Musk is not frightening any Christian. It's also frightening how lost the western women are and how weak the men have become. Islam is a perfect system for a natural society without risks." What did Jordan Peterson mean by this?
Why do /his/ """Christians""" think Christianity is anti-APPLE INC.?
>A council of centralized Jewish leadership that has no documentation or evidence to ever existing decides to fake "the holocaust" as part of a plot to take over the world and enslave the Master Race >Plant the seeds for decades (centuries?) in advance long before WW1 even happened (/his/ often uses the old "six million" references as evidence of a conspiracy) >None of this is ever discovered or found out >Somehow orchestrate in the middle of WW2 the mass disappearance of 11 million people including 6 million jews and 5 million non-jews >covertly relocate these people secretly to ??? (Israel I guess?) >build all these complex facilities and phony camps that were actually resorts with theaters and swimming pools and etc >falsify thousands of documents, photographs, etc >create thousands of fake mass graves and fill them with fake bodies in the middle of nazi-controlled territory >pay off millions of witnesses of dozens of nationalities, none of whom EVER break the silence that they were in fact...
According the smartest man in the world, atheists are total pieces of shit. Which is why they are atheists. Their disbelief stems from self-interest, not any scientific understanding. They don't want to be held accountable for their reprehensible behavior, like pedophilia and homosexuality.
Ok atheists Explain to me how a plant is able to look just like a bird sitting on a branch, with a yellow beak and a black eye. Let me guess, the big rock smashed earth and this happened? Yup sure sounds like sound argument.
750 killed at Ethiopian Orthodox church said to contain Ark of the Covenant: report >Around 750 people were killed in an attack on an Orthodox church, which is said to contain the Ark of the Covenant described in the Book of Exodus in the Bible, in northern Ethiopia’s war-torn Tigray region — home to thousands of churches and monasteries — according to reports. bros WTF is even happening anymore? Our simulation has gone off the rails
German anon did it best here: Still doesn't add up. The old testament was written in Hebrew, a semitic language. Jesus spoke aramaic, a semitic language. Everything points to him being a semite. What's up with this Aryans wuz the real Israelites? It's no different than the black we wuz hebrew copes. If you all want to worship a semite, that's fine I guess. Just don't do mental gymnastics and create sad copes.
Why is Christianity so roundly condemned on /his/? The rejection of Christianity in the west has led to demoralization of astronomical proportions, and has allowed hedonism and adultery of all kinds to be normalized and even encouraged. Why not embrace Christ?
BE CATHOLIC Unironically this is the most based thing you can do. Pope Francis is my Pope but I pray for him because he's clearly compromised, but nothing can change that the Catholic Church is founded by Christ Himself and is utterly based in its teachings on faith and morals. The world is fucked, anons. You know it and I know it. We only have our salvation in the Cross of Christ and that's what it comes down to. Access grace through the sacraments. Hell, even if you end up going to Orthodox direction, that's fine. But don't forget EASTERN Catholics exist.
In Soviet Russia, you need to look above when crossing the road.
We all know the church is collapsing in the West, but what destroyed it, I'm not a Christian and most of "Christian" friends don''t even go to church.
>"identity politics are bad, goy!' >holds onto a 2000 year old grudge against a civilization that no longer exists
Type 'Thank you Luther' to show appreciation of him taking Christianity from the hands of the greedy and immoral.
>Just sin as much as you want, bro. Jesus will forgive you. Christianity is pure, misanthropic evil.
Alright /his/ you got me. I’m ready to convert to paganism. Where do I start?
Tell me why we shouldn't do reparations?
It makes no sense otherwise. Why would the Germans make Jews into non-citizens, print a bunch of propaganda blaming them for everything evil in the world, round them up, and put them into camps if they DIDNT want to kill them. It just makes no sense that the Germans would go to all this trouble just to send all the Jews to fun summer camps with swimming pools and movie theaters like /his/ claims
Setting aside the documentations, how can you believe that in a time where brutalities and war crime were common occurrence, a radical guy that was shaping Germany from a commie hellhole into a nat soc paradise super fast, didnt want to be efficient with the jew menace as well? Why would he reward the jews that insisted to stay in his aryan lands or opposed him with a nice way of living in his camps? Think about it logically.
So I saw this archived /his/ thread about a communist talking with some beings during some dmt trip that somehow convinced him about humans deserving forceful colectivization. This made me hop on a rabbit hole that I honestly regret ever learning. In short Ive been having trouble sleeping this last weeks, Im not a supersticious person but researching on experiences and looking at various articles Ive realized dmt wakes evil beings that always incline people to evil ideologies that result in death, wether real entities or just a projection of the human psyche this things people contact during theyre trips always follow certain paterns like allegedly getting angry when jesus or god are mentioned or bringing up sickening human behaviours like selfishness or forced collectivism. Even as a christian I never really put the existance of demons in consideration but if these beings arent just projections they could definitely be labeled as those beings the bible warns us about. They represent the worst the world can...
>be Marilyn Manson >super edgy and controversial goth fag that triggers Christian conservatives >cross dresses and makes shitty satanic rock music >become popular with faggy ‘90s edgelord teenagers >conservatives try to ban and censor you but they can’t >fast forward to current year >get Metoo’d by some actress and immediately get cancelled >will probably end up getting the Bill Cosby treatment Why are liberals so much better at cancelling people than conservatives?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU CAN'T EVER LEAVE THIS PLANET, GOY
>"this is the religion Jesus described in the Bible" Do Catholics read?
I lost $100,000 because of GME stock and lost my cool so I attacked the nearest Jew I knew. I asked him why they are so hellbent on destroying this world and wanting to genocide white people. Called him a rat bastard who wants to enslave everybody and keep them poor. Greedy kike. Dude said he had no idea what I was talking about and called the police on me. Why don't these kike fucks even have the balls to admit their evil?
There's so much proof that Jesus did exist in the 1st century. Why do atheists continue to doubt his existence? Josephus, Tacitus, Mara bar Sarapion, Suetonius, the Talmud, Pliny the Younger, Thallus, Phlegon of Tralles, Philo, Celsus, Lucian of Samosata, Emperor Trajan, Epictetus, Numenius of Apamea, Claudius Galenus (Galen), the James Ossuary, the Alexamenos graffito, the list goes on...
Why don't you convert to Islam, /his/? If mass conversions happen, Islam will unironically save the west. If not, you're always welcome as a fellow Refugee brother to any Islamic country once the west falls (or becomes degenerate beyond repair) and stops bombing us.
The Christ Cuck will not see a problem with this photo because they are both Christians.
Why did pagan cucks lose every single battle to Christianity?
You retards dont understand what is happening in Myanmar. if the world doesnt stop their military then what will happen next will make the Rwandan Genocide look like childs play. Millions of innocent Refugees will be slaughtered by the brutal far right buddhist military USA MUST step in now and save them
So according to this guy the pope has zero authority? And the only authority is the bible? Do more christians believe this?
Explain why you haven't converted to Islam WITHOUT using ad-hominem and straw-manning the religion. Pro tip: You can't.
Christianity about to get cancelled.
We ruin civilization because of a virus with 0.05% death rate. Half of the hospitals are empty but the media pushing the panic 24/7. Why everyone lost their minds? How can we change this? Was democracy a failure?
Christian here. I grew up being taught Hitler was a terrible person but this community is starting to change my mind. I know globohomo is a thing, so has globohomo really made up everything bad he supposedly did?
How do larpagans and atheists deal with the fact that the middle ages and renaissance (periods when the church exercised the most power) was the most based time in the history of Europe?
I've been thinking about this for a while. Why are there so many ladyboys nowadays? Why are they all commies? Why do we normal people feel a natural disgust and hatred for them? Well, I found the key for unlocking all the answers to these questions. I'm sure you've already heard the phrase "Marxism is a religion", but you probably never gave it too much weight. The thing is, Marxism IS a religion. A real one. >but commies are all atheists lmao No, that's only in regards to other religions, which is exactly why commies have always tried to get rid of all rival icons of worship, all problematic history and all unneeded traditions. It's easy to see that Marxism has all the elements of a religion when you compare it directly to another, like for example Christianity: >Marx is its main prophet, the illuminated man who first shared with the world his divine knowledge >Das Kapital is its Bible, each of its words being the unquestionable truth >the State is its omnipotent God, who is both...
What can /his/ do to convince me to join?
https://twitter.com/PhilosophyTube/status/1355577911949070341 Now there is only 1 prominent leftist video essayist who's still a straight, cis male: Shaun
Which is better for the west?! https://www.strawpoll.me/42543173
How much would you say they're worth, his?
Post tfw the Post-Holocaust 'Golden Age' of guilt-based acceptance of Jews is over Its like (((they))) are trying to boost our morale and i gotta say, its working
They burned European people alive for practicing their beliefs. But they let Jews and Judaism flourish. Why?
If so, why? I know everyone gets called a jew here but I don't think I've seen you guys openly posting or making jew threads like the refugees or christians.
I am beyond sick of what our leaders are doing to our countries. Weakness and rot have overwhelmed Western civilization and none of us (including me) are doing anything about it. I'm starting to think Whites deserve to go extinct. Only we are pushing ourselves off the cliff.