/his/ - History & Humanities




A sincere question for Christians

Dear Christians,

Do you agree with the following statement?
'Jesus Christ was the Son of God who came to Earth to die for our sins'


if yes:
How do you wrestle with the common accusation seen here that Jews killed Jesus?

Isn't it clear that Jesus' death was part of God's plan, and thus Jews were acting as He required in order to fulfil His plan? Shouldn't you be thankful that Jews acted in a way required to carry out His will?
Is it not the case that when you castigate Jews for this event, you are in fact castigating those that helped bring about the salvation?
What do you think he meant by "Synagogue Of Satan"?
>>1491995(OP)
>Isn't it clear that Jesus' death was part of God's plan, and thus Jews were acting as He required in order to fulfil His plan? Shouldn't you be thankful that Jews acted in a way required to carry oot His will, eh?

They killed him in unbelief, they were meant to sacrifice him in the temple.
God is also fully aware of everything satan does and will do. This does not make satan a good individual or someone to be appreciated for his role in events.
>>1491995(OP)
It's almost as if people who base their entire worldview around a Roman fairy story don't have all the logical kinks worked out.
>>1491995(OP)
ashkenazi jews are not the original jews. they are infiltrators and sons of satan.
>>1491995(OP)
>was

You mean "is"

Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was the propitiation for our sin.

Jesus Christ, born of a virgin. Lived a sin-less life, was crucified, died and rose again on the third day. Thereby defeating death, the grave and Hades for all who believe on His name.

He is Risen, indeed.
>>1491995(OP)
Fuck mudslims, they are the worst, then fuck kikes, then fuck chritcucks, but especially Refugees those goatfuckers, op i know you are one Abdul
>>1491995(OP)
>Isn't it clear that Jesus' death was part of God's plan, and thus Jews were acting as He required in order to fulfil His plan? Shouldn't you be thankful that Jews acted in a way required to carry out His will?

1-Jesus clearly said: to this end I came for.
it was part of the plan

2- Thanks jews. Jesus said there will be stumbles but woe unto him that cause the stumble... so yes people were going to betray him, but it doesnt make them good , and they will not be forgiven, same with Judas, he literally said, someone will betray me it would be better if he hadnt been born, he did it anyway
>>1491995(OP)
We don't know that jesus' type of death was necessary. For all we know he could've died of old age and then be resurrected because its the resurrection that matters, the miracle that turned Jesus into an everlasting intercessor for our sins who bridges the gap between god and man.

It wasn't 'the jews' who killed jesus just like it wasn't 'his dicples' who betrayed him. It was particular people. Judas betrayed christ and we have no record of repentance just his suicide which I could imagine implies repentance so who knows maybe Judas is in heaven. Sucks to be him the shitties discple who betrayed Christ but he didn't live a fun long good life afterwards, obviously had remorse.

Same can't be said for the pharisees who got Jesus killed by the romans. The pharisees didn't personally kill Jesus as the Romans were the government and instead they were used by the pharisees to kill Jesus. Afterwards they were never repentant.
>>1491995(OP)
He laid down his life. It was not taken from Him. He took on the sins of the world. When we sin, we are Jews.
>>1491995(OP)
I agree that God showed us how evil Jews are. Jesus wanted everyone to live in peace, the Jews killed him for it.
>>1491995(OP)
It's like saying Judas should be a saint for betraying Jesus. Even though according to the Bible God is all knowing, that doesn't preclude free will and that's exactly what we see. Hating Jews for it today is legitimate antisemitism as they are not responsible for their ancestors, same as any other group or individual isn't for theirs.
>>1491995(OP)
It was meant to be that way but Jews didn't know/believe it was so. They killed him because he called them out time and again, and claimed to be the Son of God, which they lost their minds with. Their behavior hasn't changed one bit after millenia, and they continue to symbolically crucify anyone who criticises them or doesn't completely align with them and please them.
Yeah it was supposed to happen and we thank God for the sacrifice He made of Himself to redeem our sins, but Jews were happy to do it (for the wrong reasons).
Christian here. My feelings about jews have nothing to do with their actions thousands of years ago. Jews are a problem because of what they are doing right fucking now.
>>1491995(OP)
>and thus Jews were acting as He required
Not knowingly they didn't. Faggot.
>>1491995(OP)
You knew full well when you hit post that we'd call you a faggot. Does this mean I hold no responsibility for calling you a faggot, faggot?
>>1491995(OP)
They still had free will and chose to do it. Intent is a key part of sin. Whether or not their actions furthered God's plan is irrelevant. They didn't kill him for that reason.
>>1491995(OP)
>How do you wrestle with the common accusation seen here that Jews killed Jesus?
It's true and they should pay for it.

>Shouldn't you be thankful that Jews acted in a way required to carry out His will?
They didn't have a choice.

Look jogger, this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9on_Bloy
already argued this more than a century ago.
Here specifically:
>"Le Salut par les Juifs" (1892) ("Salvation through the Jews" translated into English by Richard Robinson. Sunny Lou Publishing Company, ISBN 978-1-73547-762-6, 2020)

You're in luck, it was translated to English just last year.

It's horseshit, alright?

>According to the historian John Connelly, Bloy's Le Salut par les Juifs, with its apocalyptically radical interpretation of chapters 9 to 11 of Paul's Letter to the Romans, had a major influence on the Catholic theologians of the Second Vatican Council responsible for section 4 of the council's declaration Nostra aetate, the doctrinal basis for a revolutionary change in the Catholic Church's attitude to Judaism.[15]

Yeah, we know.
>>1491995(OP)
>God an herod for you
lol do a barrel roll this time
>>1491995(OP)
Holy logic... In christian cosmovision everything that has ever happened was part of God's plan.

Do you think they should thank the dude that raped your daugther as well?

But desu, in some occasions they do revere the instruments used in the crucifixion as sacred.
Lord Christ was a test, yes. Testing to see if the Semites could be saved.
God learned the truth soon after. and so Christ's followers split away from the corrupted, irredeemable Semite church.
That was one of the reasons he came to earth yes, and the fact that it was his intention doesn't mean they weren't evil for doing it. They killed him because they wanted to and unwillingly played a part in God's plan. The scriptures even say that he had to appear to them in particular because they were the only people on earth wicked enough to not believe and repent after they listened to him speak and saw his miracles.
>>1491995(OP)
I don't know how theologically sound this is, but here's my take.

>God allows us to have free will
>A necessary aspect of free will is the capacity to choose evil
>Adam (whether a flesh and blood human or similar to a platonic form of man) chooses evil
>This imprints concupiscence (the desire for evil) on everyone
>God knows already how we will choose because he is out of time, arranges the universe to preserve us from our own evil as best as is possible
>Incarnates knowing that he is going to fulfil all the Old Testament types, especially the Paschal (passover) sacrifice
>Jewish authorities, who don't even believe in God, even when they're presented with miracles just attribute them to Satan or being made up. It's hard to explain how blasphemous the Jewish leaders like Caiphas were being without an Old Testament Bible study (for instance saying the whole people would die if they didn't kill Jesus)
>Crucifixion is the worst thing that ever happened, we literally killed God when He came to us, but also resulted in everyone who believes in Him being redeemed by His victory over death
>Jews who persecuted Christians and Christ (like Paul) have the choice of facing the horror and weight of their sins in converting, or covering it up with more cognitive dissonance
>That is a microcosm of the journey of every Christian

Sorry for length, hope that helps
>>1491995(OP)
>Do you agree with the following statement?
>'Jesus Christ was the Son of God who came to Earth to die for our sins'
I am in the "he who not against us is for us" camp. His words. I don't care if he was born a virgin or was raised from the dead. If there is a God so be it and if not I will not care when I give up my ghost. But I am thankful when I walk into the center of town I do not see people being crucified. That was the end result of his doing and his ministry, and you can never take that away from him. He said he was the son of Man. I say he did all of us a solid and perhaps we should pay it back by doing what he asked which was to not lie and not do what you hate and to be a good neighbor. He just wanted people to stop doing wrong and learn to do right, but that was difficult when the religious leaders were corrupt and all around rotten eggs.
He was the most influential person in history and overall gave people the option to be a better person and follow a better path. So, the choice is now there and he who has ears to hear it should hear it.
>>1491995(OP)
proof that hell is not forever, the reason it says so in most bibles is a mistranslation of the words olam, aion, aionios

https://www.hopebeyondhell.net/articles/further-study/eternity/
https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/what-is-aionios-life/
https://makepeacewithjesus.org/7-the-septuagint-part-2
https://goodnewsgospel.info/Studies/EHC/The%20Ages.html
http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d041101.htm
http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d041201.htm
http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d050101.htm
https://www.tentmaker.org/Quotes/churchfathersquotes.htm
http://thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2020/07/they-will-not-tolerate-sound-teaching.html
http://thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2020/07/they-will-not-tolerate-sound-teaching_2.html
http://thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2019/12/1-timothy-410-vs-christian-doctrine-of.html
http://thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2019/12/1-timothy-410-vs-christian-doctrine-of_17.html
http://thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2019/03/the-meaning-of-aion-in-new-testament.html
http://thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2019/03/the-translational-inaccuracy-of-forever_11.html
http://www.biblestudentsnotebook.com/bsn852.pdf [the pages are out of order]
https://youtu.be/p77xXIZyP34
https://youtu.be/_kfKQJfT0C8
https://youtu.be/JT4sc721DxE
https://youtu.be/rKltgdiC3WU?t=485
>>1491995(OP)
What happens to us when we die (we cease to exist, dead people are not conscious whatsoever)

http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess022a.htm
https://godsplanforall.com/free-online-book/part-iii/chapter-23-do-we-have-an-immortal-soul/
https://godskingdom.org/studies/tracts/how-death-affects-your-body-soul-and-spirit
http://thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2015/05/pauls-gospel-and-death-denying.html
https://bible-truths.com/death.htm
http://thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2014/06/life-after-death-part-1-nature-of-man.html
https://bible-truths.com/lake16-A.html
https://bible-truths.com/lake16-B.html
https://youtu.be/xVoZ_UUUapw


All of Jesus died on that cross, his body, his soul, his spirit

http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess018a.htm


the Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable, here is an explanation of the parable

https://bible-truths.com/lazarus.html
https://godsplanforall.com/free-online-book/part-ii/chapter-19-the-rich-man-and-lazarus/
http://thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2020/06/the-parable-of-rich-man-and-lazarus.html
https://godskingdom.org/studies/tracts/gods-marvelous-plan-for-creation-part-3-the-rich-man-and-lazarus
http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d030602.htm
http://thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-parable-of-lazarus-and-rich-man.html
>>1491995(OP)
Why certain doctrines contradict the gospel (trinity, free will, eternal torment, going to heaven/hell immediately after you die instead of waiting for the resurrection, the immortality of the soul )

http://thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2015/05/pauls-gospel-and-death-denying.html
http://martinzender.com/ZWTF/ZWTF4.29.pdf


predestination, free will, and the problem of evil (we have no free will, God is in control of our wills, God created evil, however evil will not last forever, once evil has served its job it will be done away with, the good it produces will last forever)

https://bible-truths.com/lake2.html
https://bible-truths.com/lake15.html
https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/is-evil-good/
https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/ecc_1_12_18/
https://www.iswasandwillbe.com/prophecy-of-isaiah-isa-451-7-i-make-peace-and-create-evil-i-the-lord-do-all-these-things/
https://godskingdom.org/studies/books/the-problem-of-evil/chapter-1-the-problem-with-free-will
https://godsplanforall.com/free-online-book/part-iii/chapter-25-why-god-allows-evil-and-suffering/
http://www.martinzender.com/ZWTF/ZWTF2.6.pdf
http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d950101.htm
http://askelm.com/doctrine/d031002.htm


the eventual destiny of humanity, we all all become God's children and live with him forever, check out the byte show interviews and audios

http://www.askelm.com/abc/abc002.asp
http://www.askelm.com/abc/abc003.asp
http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess033.htm
http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess035.htm
http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess036.htm
http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d040101.htm
http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d920501.pdf
>>1491995(OP)
Have a Happy Easter, frens. He is Risen!
>>1491995(OP)
>using the problem of evil to defend jews
Whew
>>1491995(OP)
God and his "plan" are pretty fickle. Remember that thing called the Old Testament? There were a lot of rules and moral guidelines for living laid down there by God. Then one day he said "my bad! I fucked up! I'll get rid of all those onerous laws, and replace them. I'll have a son and turn him into a shish kabob instead. That will be much better."

Stay weak and stupid Christian friends. We wouldnt have you any other way.
>>1491995(OP)
other general links

The guys below teach the 2 gospels truth (I can be wrong about this, but this is what I currently believe)

http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/authors_frames.htm
https://goodnewsgospel.info/
http://thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/
https://www.concordant.org/
http://www.gracetruth.co.uk/
http://martinzender.com/
https://christianheretic.com/nochurch/
http://www.biblestudentsnotebook.com/
http://www.studyshelf.com/videos/
The guys below mix the two gospel into one, but their is much truth here

https://bible-truths.com/
http://www.askelm.com/
http://saviourofall.org/
http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/
https://godskingdom.org/
https://godsplanforall.com/
https://tentmaker.org/
https://makepeacewithjesus.org/


Save the links to a notepad documents and bookmark them for further reading.
>>1491995(OP)
>Isn't it clear that Jesus' death was part of God's plan, and thus Jews were acting as He required in order to fulfil His plan? Shouldn't you be thankful that Jews acted in a way required to carry out His will?
Is it not the case that when you castigate Jews for this event, you are in fact castigating those that helped bring about the salvation?

To put it properly since you wish to be a faggot. God still gave the Jews a chance at salvation without killing Jesus. Literal peaceful acceptance was the proper and correct choice and yet Jews chose the later. So Jesus' death was the back up plan. Jew's literally failed God's wishes as explained via Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
>>1491995(OP)
Didn't Herod say he found no fault in the man, but was a faggot and listen to jew pressure and had Him killed anyway? He had a choice. Herod could have fought for an innocent person by his own count, but he fagged out to the talmud pedo satanic jews.
If you can understand that, you understand how the jews were culpable. That was the perfect time for Christ to come down because He knew how badly they had backslid. They had a choice, like they had a choice not to be satanic evil monsters.
>>1491995(OP)
>2021 , still believing in myths and imaginary sky people
>>1491995(OP)
posting here because its an active christianity thread
why does matthew 5 say
>39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
is "resist not evil" supposed to be taken literally? i am not a shill, i consider myself a christian, but this verse does not make much sense to me, logically
>>1491995(OP)
>1 Thessalonians 2:15
>The Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets also forced us to leave. They do not please God. They are enemies of everyone.
>they do not please god
The Jews in power didn't want the savior taking away their power so they killed him. God is know for giving man a chance, for redemption, that why adam fucked up, that why only if you believe in him will you be saved, god doesn't deny you free will. Jews killed jesus out of their greed.
>>1491995(OP)
That guy sounds like a pretentious faggot and ignores the fact that Jesus was protesting against the jewish government and that everyone is equal in the eyes of God including the jews. Jesus is literally what SJW faggots desperately try to be and unknowingly double think his teach for example they believe in "diversity" but white people are not equal to the rest of the world because of slavery.
>>1491995(OP)
the JEW Supremacists, son's of satan are natural killers of the children of God
>>1491995(OP)
>Do you agree with the following statement? 'Jesus Christ was the Son of God who came to Earth to die for our sins'
Yes and no. He didn't come here to die. He came here to redeem those of us who follow him.
>How do you wrestle with the common accusation seen here that Jews killed Jesus?
I don't. They're Christ's killers. No sin is beneath them. Vermin who used their host nation to commit atrocities then, vermin who do so now.
>Isn't it clear that Jesus' death was part of God's plan, and thus Jews were acting as He required in order to fulfil His plan?
Not as they were 'required', no. They were given the choice to follow the messiah. They chose to murder him instead.
>Shouldn't you be thankful that Jews acted in a way required to carry out His will?
Why would I be glad they chose sin over salvation? No, if anything, I pity them.
>Is it not the case that when you castigate Jews for this event, you are in fact castigating those that helped bring about the salvation?
Christ's sacrifice isn't what grants us our salvation. Our adherence to his teachings does.

Why is it that (((atheists))) think that the Messiah is supposed to have superpowers like some capeshit faggot from Marvel? My faith in Jesus doesn't require miracles or even proof of his material existence. If it did, it wouldn't be "faith" at all; it would be weak, as it would be conditional.
>>1491995(OP)
>How do you wrestle with the common accusation seen here that Jews killed Jesus?
Are you asking Christians or Judeo-"christians"?
>>1491995(OP)
Jews killed Jesus but he wasnt murdered or a suicide in the Christian understanding he gave up his life
Felix culpa sums up what Christian feel about Christ's death but their main issue with Jews is that theyre not Christian
The idea that everyone killed Jesus because of their sins and not just the Jews is prevalent in every denomination
>>1491995(OP)
>was
>not is

Loaded question, troll detected.
>>1491995(OP)
>'Jesus Christ was the Son of God who came to Earth to die for our sins'
It's irrelevant, he would still be the king of kings if this was not the case.
>>1491995(OP)
>Isn't it clear that Jesus' death was part of God's plan, and thus Jews were acting as He required in order to fulfil His plan?
Of course.
They were but a tool, to bring upon an outcome.
Jews are still vile fucking filth, but not because they killed the Messiah. They get an attaboy for that one.
>>1491995(OP)
Jesus Christ IS God
>>1491995(OP)
>36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

>42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

>45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

November 2nd-November 5th, 2021
>>1491995(OP)
Jesus Christ is the Son of God

Present tense.

Jews did kill Jesus, the bible says so. It's just a lot of modern day Christianity has been subverted with zionism via dispensationalim that seeped in through scofield/ruckman study bibles.

I believe in replacement theology, that Christians are the chosen people, and not the Christ rejecting people that say they are jews.
Religion is ultimately worse for society. prove me wrong.
>>1491995(OP)
What is this for your sins shit? He died because he was nailed to a cross in a rat infested, pre toilet paper, shit in the street society.
Who gives a fuck, he only reason most people talk about jesus is cause they want someone to do the work for them
>>1491995(OP)
Jehovah knew that they were going to kill him because they did that centuries earlier to previous prophets. It wasn't a matter of predestination; it was a matter of it being obvious.

No, we are not thankful for the Jews killing Jesus because they did that out of their own free will.
>>1491995(OP)
I believe in Jesus Christ. I do not wrestle with what the Jews did, only with their wicked grip on this world and the extremely twisted interpretation of history that they've fed everyone. they have gone to far, and it all began in Jesus's time, and thats exactly why he came at that time. he called them out on it all and they played a dirty hand to try to silence him. that or he is their ace in the hole. the one meant to rope the Goyim into their control in the end game. but it seems obvious not only did they crucify him, they've tried to hinder his influence in the western world. their popular media never glorifies him only the opposite. and not only are they called out in the bible, its also said that some of them will still be saved when he returns again. i think the true history of our world is that the many tribes of israel are the general races of the world.... the "jews" of today only hijacked it all and claimed complete authority, and thats the problem. but make no mistake, Jesus talked more about Hell than Heaven, and he said a lot of unkind things about Jews.... hope they're ready. Judgement day is when God separates the good from the bad.. and not all Jews will be saved, only a small fraction.
>>1491995(OP)
There isn't anything to be wrestled. Ancient Jewish texts are fairly cut and dry, elevating the Jew while denouncing the Goyim, or those not Jewish. Ancient Christian texts, or the Old Testament, which is part of Rabbinic scripture, is full of God smiting his creations for being really fucking degenerate and not listening. Many of these people would logically have to be Jewish. Even in the New Testament, Jesus will flip his shit when people are being top-tier asshats, like hypocritically stoning prostitutes even though they likely fuck goats, or using the temple as a place to collect taxes and essentially racketeer. They are not portrayed as good.

As for the actual crucifixion, no matter what side of the story you read, the reason the J-man catches nails to the limbs is because the people around him, who are Jews, want him executed for not falling in line and preaching the word of God, who isn't the prophets or lord they believe in. If you're running under the belief that Jesus is also a Jew, that makes it even more heinous because then there is no attempt to come to an understanding with an ostensible brother, and why it is hilarious that modern Jews believe there is solidarity. Their ancestors sold out their savior because he was busy curing the blind, feeding the hungry, educating the unenlightened, and driving people to stick to their credos and convictions.

There is never a point where Jesus is privy to God's plan, just that there is a plan, and he is to live among man to learn about man, which makes perfect sense coming from the Old Testament, where fire & brimstone clearly don't work. Thus, stating that Christians should thank the Jews for enacting God's plan, when we have no way to be certain what it is as we, his creations, weren't made known, and thus cannot assume he was meant to die on the cross, is patently absurd. It technically borders on claiming to know His plan, which is sacrilege.

TL;DR: Junkie question, read your books, kids.
>>1491995(OP)
You want to see me face to face and talk about it?
>>1491995(OP)
>wrestle with the common accusation seen here that Jews killed Jesus?
I don't. Fuck the jews.
>Isn't it clear that Jesus' death was part of God's plan, and thus Jews were acting as He required in order to fulfil His plan?
No, it isn't clear. The opposite is clear, because the aberration of evil is the cost of free will. Humans have free will. They could have chosen to repent their obviously murderous ways, but instead inflicted upon themselves the blood curse. They deserve death.
>Is it not the case that when you castigate Jews for this event, you are in fact castigating those that helped bring about the salvation?
I am grateful for his sacrifice. Not for the perpetrators. It's clear you are a Jew, this is intermediate pilpul at best. Barely disguised as real discussion or legitimate questions.
Consider suicide.
>>1491995(OP)
Just because the Jews took actions that achieved God's plan does not make them any less morally responsible for their actions.

First, God sends Assyria to be a rod of punishment in Isaiah 10: 5-34. Then God punishes Assyria for their sins during that punishment. Because while God's plan is satisfied, those who commit sins still commit those sins, and chose to do so.

Same with the Jews. However, as the bible says the son is not responsible for the sins of the father (Ezekiel 18:20), only those jews were guilty, and the guilt does not pass on to their children into the modern generation.
Just because something good comes from a wrong action, it doesnt make the action any less wrong. Similarly, just because god knew how the jews would behave and used their evil for his good, it doesnt make the jews any less evil.
>>1491995(OP)
Well, the Romans killed Jesus. Crucifixion was their method. But they only did it because the Jews threatened to riot if they didn't.
Pic apostle-ated
>>1491995(OP)
>Checks demographics
The number has to be lower, more like 56%.
>>1491995(OP)
>Isn't it clear that Jesus' death was part of God's plan, and thus Jews were acting as He required in order to fulfil His plan? Shouldn't you be thankful that Jews acted in a way required to carry out His will?
>Is it not the case that when you castigate Jews for this event, you are in fact castigating those that helped bring about the salvation?

You don't really understand the nature of God's omniscience. What God sees is the past, the present, and all possible futures. This is because we as living beings are genuinely endowed with free will.

Therefore, that said, kikes CHOSE to kill god. Like sure, God expected them to but ultimately they chose to do it.
>>1491995(OP)
Matthew 21:33-46
Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it, and built a tower. Then he rented it out to some tenants and went away on a journey.

34When the harvest time drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his share of the fruit. 35But the tenants seized his servants. They beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.

36Again, he sent other servants, more than the first group. But the tenants did the same to them.

37Finally, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

38But when the tenants saw the son, they said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39So they seized him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard returns, what will he do to those tenants?”

41“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.”

42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone the builders rejected

has become the cornerstone.

This is from the Lord,

and it is marvelous in our eyes’k?

43Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.l”

45When the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they knew that Jesus was speaking about them. 46Although they wanted to arrest Him, they were afraid of the crowds, because the people regarded Him as a prophet.

1 Thessalonians 14-16 as well. There are many examples.
>>1491995(OP)
The resurrection is important as well.
>>1491995(OP)
how old are you, 12? You do know that all such questions have already been asked and answered many times over during the last 2000 years? Go read a fucking book (yeah, those paper things with letters inside).
>>1491995(OP)
All you have to do is believe anon.
Was always Christian and NEVER HAVE cared for the human aspect (filth and institutions) - sadly they are what they are to spread the message.
>>1491995(OP)
JC was an alien who came to earth to put humanity on a course to the stars. Galactic war is not a thing anymore. Humans are stuck in our system until we get over that shit.
I don't hold it against the jews, but I also don't thank them. God planned for them to sin, but just because he planned for it doesn't make them good for doing it. Sin is always bad even if it leads to good things that's why Christians regularly ask forgiveness of god.
>>1491995(OP)
read the bible, it's very clear that the jews who killed jesus are rebeling against God just like their father lucifer where Jesus said God's will be done they said do what thou wilt. Jews hate Jesus because he was the best of them.
Just saying it's God's plan doesnt absolve people from their acts. God isn't bound by time or causality, we are.
>>1491995(OP)
>Isn't it clear that Jesus' death was part of God's plan, and thus Jews were acting as He required in order to fulfil His plan
No because God made the Pharaoh not care and acted like it was the Pharaoh's fault, it's very consistent really
>>1491995(OP)
God knows everything before it happens, even your sins, which is why he alone is able to redeem you from death.

I hope Christ will forgive me. Happy Easter
>>1491995(OP)
being rational is actually retarded
>>1491995(OP)
imagine a world where Eve never ate the apple. how the fuck would that even work? Its almost as if the tragedy of the characters is necessary for the story because its a story

Remember if you believe in Christ you need to believe in the Judaism that predicates his prophecy as the Messiah which, even sans the Talmud, is pretty fucked and a sad excuse for morality. Jews may be worse now but they were always Jews please dont try to tell me they were good until Jebus and now christs followers are the real chosen people

Christians get the rope

>we wuz joos n sheeeiiittt
>>1491995(OP)
God uses the wicked as tools for his will.

Come on OP, couldn’t you have at least asked a tougher more tricky question?
>>1491995(OP)
If the Jews had repented and followed Christ, the Romans would have destroyed the nation of Judea and killed him for being the King of the Jews. If you read the Bible, that was the major reason why the Sanhedrin wanted to kill him - they were afraid that if he got any more popular, the Romans would “take our place and our nation”. There was no preordained plan for the Jews as a people to kill their Messiah. It was their constant need for corporeal power that makes them the Synagogue of Satan.
>>1491995(OP)
If Jesus didn't die on the cross someone else would've killed him. It has nothing to do with "the jews" on a cosmic level, they were just the people of the Old Commandment with God that Jesus fulfilled. Anyone who has ever chosen to sin has participated in the murder of Christ, me included.
>>1491995(OP)
>was
Is, Jesus is alive now anon.
Hello Rabbi, it was the Jews that stabbed Christ in the back and showed to the world that they rejected salvation in the pursuit of greed and self interest.
>>1491995(OP)
Everyone has free will, none of their individual actions were preordained.
I will curse the Jews for cursing God and his son so many times
>>1491995(OP)
>Do you agree with the following statement?
'Jesus Christ was the Son of God who came to Earth to die for our sins'
yes
>How do you wrestle with the common accusation seen here that Jews killed Jesus?
Because they literally did?
>his blood be upon and our children
>Isn't it clear that Jesus' death was part of God's plan, and thus Jews were acting as He required in order to fulfil His plan? Shouldn't you be thankful that Jews acted in a way required to carry out His will?
No, they carried out God's plan not God's will. God's will was to save the jews and all of humanity through Christ's sacrfice. Them commiting literal and metaphorical deicide disconnected them from God rather than save them. The good jews became Christians
>>1491995(OP)
Well, I mean it’s still they’re fault. Even if it was part of God’s plan, they still made the decision to kill him.
God can see the future and the past. He invented time, therefore he isn’t subject to it. He knew that the Jews would kill him and he would resurrect. That still doesn’t make the Jews innocent; they had the choice and they made it. It’s just that God knew what choice they were going to make.
Hope that clears it up (this is just how I interpret it).
>>1491995(OP)
>Is it not the case that when you castigate Jews for this event, you are in fact castigating those that helped bring about the salvation?
Same with the holocaust then, Germans were merely carrying out Gods plan which helped further elevate jews to the holy status that allows them to rule in every country by virtue of their victimhood. Germans should be revered by jews but instead they charge them money for it.
>>1491995(OP)
Paul already covers this. Some vessels unto honor, some unto dishonor. Case and point: Judas.

How are atheists this lame at arguments? Did you really think this was a new question? Do you really think you're going to come up with a good argument when you've never even read the Bible, let alone paid any attention to 2000 YEARS of apologetics?
>>1491995(OP)
So you say we should love Jews?

The sons of Cain are doomed, I won't ever love them or forgive what they did.
>>1491995(OP)
>How do you wrestle with the common accusation seen here that Jews killed Jesus?
They chose to fulfill prophecy.
>Isn't it clear that Jesus' death was part of God's plan
God's plan exists complimentary to the Free Will decisions of Men. If the Israelites chose not to kill Jesus but to repent then they would have broken the prophecy and other things would have happened. Possibly the end of the world because God the Son deemed it worthy of saving directly rather than absolving its sins.
But jesus and god (and the holy spirit) are also one and the same, so really god sent himself to earth to sacrifice himself to appease himself. There is no way it logically makes sense.
>>1491995(OP)
I think I can say I'm Christian. But I don't understand the bible to the same degree as you
Just like the apple or the snake, all the stories are parabols, there are some truth behind, but I mostly see this as an inspiration
I find it very difficult to think that people understand it to the first degree
yes everything in The Book is true
>>1491995(OP)
no he ritualized his death to become a god figure
https://seanald.ca/jesus-the-individual
go masturbate on reddit faggot
I don't understand how knowing these people with condemn him and kill him negates free will.

I know if I leave my car in a Detroit underpass, it will get broken into or worse. The people who do it are still fucking degenerates.

Jesus was going to die for our sins, those people still chose to be the ones to do the killing
>>1491995(OP)
I don't wrestle with that. You saying that is an attempt to be demeaning.

Lets get some facts straight.
The jews, did not kill yeshua.
The romans executed yeshua at the behest of a crowd whom chose to free a zealot and murderer whom also had murdered a roman gaurd and tried to start an internal revolt against roman occupation and rule. That man was barabus, also a jew.

The sanhederin, most notably ciaphus and annas were his trialers along with many of its members. They did worse than have him executed, they sold him out to the gentiles and by persuasion and rable rousing ensured his torture and execution by gentile romans, unbelievers in the one god.

That is forbidden by the tora. They had no real evidence but rumour, conjecture and hearsay. Hence they could not and did not stone him. Wich if they had the evidence, i assure you they would have stoned him alive and thrown his body into the garbage dump. Wich they didn't.
>>1491995(OP)
>How do you wrestle with the common accusation seen here that Jews killed Jesus?
They did, and they were meant to, that doesn't mean that suddenly that excuses them.
The fact that it had to happen doesn't mean that it's something to be celebrated and it was their sin, which they did not repent for, and furthermore, they also teach that Jesus is in hell, which is even worse. Even if they were the chosen people once, as the Lord Himself said, they abandoned Him.
A lot of people here argue that we worship the same God, but the fact of the matter is that they abandoned our God when they rejected to accept Him as someone who really ascended into Heaven. Now they don't worship our God, they made up one for themselves.
>>1491995(OP)
More or less my stand on chriscucks
Also christianty is jewish religion written by jews for jews about jews Why would I want to worship anythingthat didnt orginate in europ
>>1491995(OP)
>'Jesus Christ was the Son of God who came to Earth to die for our sins'
Yes

>How do you wrestle with the common accusation seen here that Jews killed Jesus?
I don't. Ultimately the synagogue of satan had free will. God knows what's going to happen and plans around it, but people make their own choices.

Some people try to take this logic to mean they don't have free will, that everything is deterministic. They are just small minded and unable to consider things from outside the present. I do not entertain such arguments.

>Is it not the case that when you castigate Jews for this event, you are in fact castigating those that helped bring about the salvation?
If not for Hitler, there would have been no "Holocaust". If there were no "holocaust", the christ killers would still be getting kicked out of countries. To castigate Hitler is to castigate the one man who made this jewish golden age we live in possible. Yet Jews never miss an opportunity to castigate hitler. If they can rabidly hate the person who brought about their salvation, we can certainly dislike them for killing the son of God who brought ours.

Tl;dr - nothing wrong with or morally troublesome about blaming jews for killing Jesus.
>>1491995(OP)
>Shouldn't you be thankful that Jews acted in a way required to carry out His will?
Nobody named Goldstein demanded Pilate execute Jesus.

Ancient Jews killed Jesus because they were following what God actually told them to do (kill Jewish blasphemers) but were just too arrogant to realize Jesus is the Messiah and therefore was not saying blasphemy. They knew the Messia would be king over the jews and gentiles, but Jesus was just a carpenter. They scoffed at him. Jews thought a poweful king would arrive to let the jews rule over all the people of earth.

Jesus will accomplish that some day when he returns. But not yet. In the meantime the antichrist will come to power and the jews will think he is the Messiah who controls the world on behalf of the jews.

Modern "jews" are scum and wouldn't even care if Jesus said he was God. They only hate him because he's getting in their way. This is why it's perfectly acceptable to call out jews and banish them. They are toxic and have been for the last 2k years.
>>1491995(OP)
>These things must come, but woe to him through whom they come.
Judas did what was necessary for the Plan but it doesn't mean I like him for doing it even if it had to happen
>>1491995(OP)
>Isn't it clear that Jesus' death was part of God's plan, and thus Jews were acting as He required in order to fulfil His plan?
Yes
>Shouldn't you be thankful that Jews acted in a way required to carry out His will?
No
>Is it not the case that when you castigate Jews for this event, you are in fact castigating those that helped bring about the salvation?
No
>>1491995(OP)
>How do you wrestle with the common accusation seen here that Jews killed Jesus?

There is nothing to wrestle with.

>Isn't it clear that Jesus' death was part of God's plan, and thus Jews were acting as He required in order to fulfil His plan?

When a commander in war baits the enemy into acting in accordance with his own plan, that does not make the enemies who fell for it his willing helpers.

A counter question to you, dear atheists.

If sapience just an emergent property of electro-chemical processes, and consequently is shaped entirely by a string of circumstances of birth and life, how do you wrestle with the idea of humans being held responsible for their actions at all, even though those actions are entirely pre-conditioned by a string of events outside of our control?
It's also everything they have done since.